Madison Bumgarner

[Bear]

Madison Bumgarner (11-3, 1.70 ERA) won his fourth South Atlantic League Player of the Week Award. I don't care what league this Kid is playing in with that record he deserves a look see!

[McCovey]

Bumgarner was rated the Giants' #3 prospect by Baseball America going into the '08 season. He's obviously has lived up to the expectations. He just turned 19 years four days ago as well. I'm not sure why he hasn't been promoted to San Jose, yet. If he gets promoted soon I'll definitely go check him out and post a report.

[McCovey]

Time to update this thread!


Scouting Notes: The Curious Case Of Madison Bumgarner

By Frankie Piliere (http://www.fanhouse.com/staff/frankie-piliere/)
3/11/2010

SCOTTSDALE, Ariz. -- You have to take spring training performances with a large grain or salt, good or bad. No one is going to be too concerned with an ace pitcher who struggles in mid-March. However, for many young players the spring is far more important. It is a proving ground for them.

For young pitchers like Madison Bumgarner (http://mlb.fanhouse.com/players/madison-bumgarner/8590), who is looking to nail down the fifth spot in the Giants (http://mlb.fanhouse.com/team/giants) rotation, there are a number of questions to be answered. By the end of the 2009 season, many fans began to wonder what had happened to the powerful, front-of-the-rotation-starter type of stuff Bumgarner was said to have. His decreased velocity in his brief big-league stint was attributed to a long season, but now, early in the spring, the questions still linger.

Pitchers are still building up arm strength at this point in the spring, but when a drop in velocity carries over from the previous season and becomes a trend, a little worry is bound to creep in. This is the case for San Francisco's highly touted young southpaw.

Bumgarner was shaky, to say the least, in terms of both raw stuff and results during his outing against Seattle on Thursday. The command was not at its best, but that sort of problem is to be expected in March -- the Giants' ace, Tim Lincecum (http://mlb.fanhouse.com/players/tim-lincecum/7981), has had similar problems with his command. Control and being able to pinpoint all of his pitches is going to be critical for Bumgarner, however, if his mid-90s velocity does not return.

If one huge positive can be taken from his outing it's his pickoff move. While a good pickoff move may not seem all that important, Bumgarner's is at the level of an Andy Pettitte (http://mlb.fanhouse.com/players/andy-pettitte/5331)'s and especially early in his career could be a huge weapon to get him out of trouble.

Unfortunately, he spent a great deal of time trying to get out of trouble on Thursday. His fastball was up in the zone and sitting at 86-88 mph, reaching 89 a handful of times. Yes, pitchers can absolutely survive at this velocity, especially from the left side, but the fact that he once lived around 92-94 mph means those lower numbers are very much a concern.

So, where did the velocity go? I took the time to go back and look at some old footage of Bumgarner to confirm what I was already pretty certain of. His mechanics have not changed, at least in any way drastic enough to alter his velocity. But there has long been concerns over his cross-body delivery and the stress it may be putting on his shoulder. Bumgarner does not throw like an injured pitcher. In fact, his delivery is rather easy and not violent. At the same time, he does very little work with his lower half and most of his velocity is created by his arm action.

http://www.blogcdn.com/mlb.fanhouse.com/media/2009/10/frankie-piliere-twitter.jpg (http://twitter.com/FrankiePiliere)Over time, many scouts thought this might become a concern. Perhaps it is already. He may not be breaking down, but given the extra workload put on his left shoulder with the limited drive he is creating with his lower half, it's possible that maybe he just could not maintain that previously mid-90s velocity.

There will be a great deal of debate about his velocity if it does not return and there's no way to be certain of where that extra heat went. But, let's look at him as what he is right now. If he can build up a little more velocity and live around 89-90 and pitch with exceptional deception like his unusual delivery allows, there is plenty of success in his future. We may just need to adjust our expectations a little.

Bumgarner is very difficult to pick up, particularly for left-handed hitters, and he flashes the makings of a good, tight breaking ball. The emphasis is on flashes though, as he still is very inconsistent in this department. At 78-80 mph with late action, it's going to difficult on hitters from both sides if he can throw it consistently for strikes. His problem right now is he often is forced to go to a still-developing second pitch because he's not confident he can get hitters out with his fastball. He's going to his second or third pitch when he's behind in the count and having limited success.

So somewhere along the line, we'll have to see him gain some confidence either back in his fastball or in a more consistent slider. But right now he's a pitcher who still has a lot to work on. Is he still a very talented prospect? Absolutely. His velocity plays harder than the gun reads, his breaking ball has definite potential, his fastball command is above average when he's right, and his deception is outstanding. If he regains his velocity, then things really get interesting. Right now, his flaws are simply accentuated because he doesn't have plus velocity to lean on.

Frankie Piliere spent the last three seasons working as a scout, most recently in the professional scouting department for the Texas Rangers (http://mlb.fanhouse.com/team/rangers) in 2009. He now serves as the National Baseball (http://mlb.fanhouse.com/) Analyst here at FanHouse.

[WillTheThrill]

Is it time to start getting worried about Madison Bumgarner, yet? He topped out at 88 mph and allowed 11 hits and four runs in three innings at Triple-A Reno on Friday night.

What do you guys think???? :(:confused:

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[McCovey]

The Giants should have drafted Jayson Heyward instead of Madison Bumgarner. :pound:

[WillTheThrill]

LOL. Good one! :D

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[McCovey]

How quickly things change in just one year. A year ago at this time Angel Villalona, Tim Alderson, and Madison Bumgarner were top Giants prospects with bright futures ahead. :(

[WillTheThrill]

I guess that just proves that nothing is certain... especially when it comes to baseball prospects.

Let's hope that Posey pans out! :beerbang:

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[jimm]

Hopefully its just mechanics with Baumgarner, something they can correct.

[McCovey]

Hopefully its just mechanics with Baumgarner, something they can correct.
But if it were just "mechanics" shouldn't the Giants have fixed the problem a long time ago?

[SF Kid]

That's it Mc. By now mechanics should have been addressed and improvement apparent.

[Bear]

But if it were just "mechanics" shouldn't the Giants have fixed the problem a long time ago?

I am not ready to throw this guy overboard just yet. Give him a break Mc. Remember he is left handed like the Kid and we all know how demented he is. :pound:

[jimm]

It wasn't a problem until late season last year and early this year so I guess we'll have to wait and see if its sorted out.

[DannyCalifornia]

Is it time to start getting worried about Madison Bumgarner, yet? He topped out at 88 mph and allowed 11 hits and four runs in three innings at Triple-A Reno on Friday night.

What do you guys think???? :(:confused:

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He's 20. I doubt his career is over just because he had one nightmare outing, this is what happens to young prospects, it will actually have done him good to take a pasting like that, all part of the learning process of having to deal mentally with a bad day on the mound. We should only worry Will if next couple of times they shell him for another 11 hits in 3 innings. I think we can keep faith in him and guys like Posey and Villalona.

[WillTheThrill]

Danny, it hasn't just been one outing -- though I think this is the first time he got "pasted" -- his velocity has been down for quite a while now.

Obviously, lots of pitchers can stay successful if their velocity goes down... by learning to throw other pitches, by throwing pitches that tend to get hit as ground balls, by being "smarter". But it is VERY worrisome when such a young pitcher loses velocity like this and can't explain it. Like you pointed out, he's only 20.

.

[McCovey]

Also, the Pacific Coast League is a strong hitters' league. The PCL teams are filled with much older career minor leaguers and former major leaguers. The quality of hitter Madison will be facing in AAA is far superior to what he faced at A and AA ball.

[McCovey]

I am not ready to throw this guy overboard just yet. Give him a break Mc. Remember he is left handed like the Kid and we all know how demented he is. :pound:
Oh I'm not close to being ready to give up on MadBum. I have a wait-and-see attitude.

[DannyCalifornia]

Hi Will. Yeah, I wish I had more time right now to follow what goes on with our younger guys in the Giants farm system, I'm barely able to keep up to speed on The Big Club! I used to be an avid follower of Fresno, and especially the Salem-Keizer Volcanoes as I spent a lot of time up in Oregon most summers on vacation. I'm sure if you say his velocity has dropped, then that would be a concern, more so in a way than if he was simply missing his spots and his control was wayward, which is something you can work on, loss of velocity at that age isn't something we want to see. Anyway, keep me posted on how 'The Bum' gets on!!

[WillTheThrill]

Danny, honestly, I don't follow the minor leagues that much either. I just "parrot" what I read from the various beat writers following the Giants.

Other than a single-A San Jose Giants game I went to with McCovey while I was visiting the bay area last summer, and the occasional Portland Beavers vs Fresno Grizzlies game up here in Portland, OR (where I live) I don't see much in the way of minor league games to have any real first-hand observations!

Also, I defer to McCovey's expertise. He follows the minor leagues a lot more closely than I do! :D

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[McCovey]

From Rob Neyer.


Giants' Bumgarner struggling in Triple-A
By Rob Neyer
ESPN.com

Aaron Gleeman on Madison Bumgarner (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=29949), until very recently one of our top pitching prospects (http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/04/giants-prospect-madison-bumgarner-is-a-mess.html.php?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter):



Certainly plenty of 19-year-old pitchers tire late during a season, so Baseball America ranked him as the game's 14th-best prospect this season and Bumgarner's declining velocity wasn't a huge story until he showed up at spring training to compete for the fifth spot in the Giants' rotation. His fastball rarely topped the mid-80s and he predictably got rocked for a 6.43 ERA while handing out seven walks with zero strikeouts.

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2010/0416/mlb_g_bumgarner1x_300.jpg
Christian Petersen/Getty ImagesGiants pitching prospect Brian Bumgarner has had some issues in Triple-A this year.


Bumgarner lost the fifth-starter competition to veteran Todd Wellemeyer (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=5475) and reported to Triple-A, where things have gotten even worse. He gave up 11 hits over three innings in his debut last week and was pasted for seven runs on 10 hits in four innings yesterday. Through two starts Bumgarner has a 14.14 ERA and .538 opponents' batting average after coming into the season with a 27-5 record and 1.65 ERA in the minors.

In the span of just a couple months he's gone from elite prospect competing for a rotation spot at age 20 to likely midseason call-up to ... well, now it's tough to figure exactly what the Giants plan to do with Bumgarner. His fastball is missing 5-10 miles per hour and Triple-A hitters are teeing off on him. Something clearly isn't right with him physically at this point and the Giants need to figure it out before things get totally out of hand.


Before things get totally out of hand?

Aaron's on the right track, but I'm afraid he's still a half-hearted participant in what looks to me like a mass delusion. Here's an example, from Baseball America's "Prospect Handbook" (italics all mine):


At this best, Bumgarner shows a mid-90s fastball ... He's an ornery competitor in the mold of Kevin Brown (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=1837), and when the Giants needed him to make his major league debut on an hour's notice, he showed zero fear ... Bumgarner pitched at 88-90 mph for most of the second half of last season. A perfectionist, he may have lost velocity because he threw too much on the side ... Bumgarner has No. 1 starter potential, and his stuff would play against big leaguers now. He's just 20, so they'd prefer to let him work in Triple-A to start 2010.


Drink any good Kool-Aid lately?

According to John Sickels -- who still rated Bumgarner as "one of the best pitching prospects in the game" -- Bumgarner opened last season throwing 90-94 with Class A San Jose, dropped to 87-90 in the summer with Double-A Connecticut, and finished at 85-88 with the Giants in September. In spring training, the Giants let him throw seven innings, in which he recorded seven walks and zero strikeouts. And now he's throwing cookies in the Pacific Coast League.

I know, I know ... "He's only 20!"

For a pitcher, being 20 should be a good thing. At least a pitcher like Madison Bumgarner. When he was 18 in the Sally League, he struck out 164 in 142 innings, 15-3 record and a 1.46 ERA. A kid like that, you move him quickly and hope he wins some games for the big club before he hurts his arm.

It could have happened last fall. Bumgarner got one start (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=290908126) and pitched well, but got stuck with a no-decision when the bullpen gave up a couple of runs. He also pitched a couple of shutout innings in another close game (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=291003125). No wins, though. Or losses. Bumgarner's record stands at 0-0.

I'm afraid it's going to be 0-0 for quite some time. I'm afraid this goes beyond "something clearly isn't right with him physically at this point ..." I'm afraid he's hurt. I'm sure the Giants would tell you that they've run all sorts of tests and they can't find anything and it's just a mechanical thing, and blah blah blah I've heard it all before. This kid's probably been lighting up radar guns since he was in the ninth grade, and now all of a sudden he's throwing 87 and all he needs to do is keep his elbow a little higher during his delivery?

[McCovey]

From the above Neyer article this comment was posted.


Whatever happened, it happened post-San Jose last year. I saw him in a game in early May 09, with seats just behind home plate, a little to the 1B side so I could see his delivery. His FB was sitting at 92-93 and touched 94. His slider was very sharp. I have heard it debated whether he throws a slider or a hard curve, but this was a slider. It was 82-84 and dove across the plate, ending at the back foot of RH hitters. The curve and the few changeups he tried were notably slower, in the 75-78 range. He had no control over the changeup, which when it missed usually missed up & away to RHs. But in my mind the FB & slider were very much + or ++ pitches that night, so if it was an injury, I am guessing it occurred when he went to AA ball in Connecticut. Remember, one of the things reported by scouts all along was that he had EASY velocity for that low to mid-90s FB, and that was on display when I saw him. Almost no effort in the delivery, even if it does come across his body. So let's see - if it is an injury I really hope it's elbow & not shoulder.

[Bear]

This is not good. Not good at all. If he fails completely this year will be a major set back for the Giants. I would sit this guy down for a serious talk. If he is hurt they need to shut him down now and deal with it. If not they will be forced to make choices they may not want to make. What a shame this has happened, but now is the time to deal with it, and not take the head in the sand stance.:banghead::lightning:

[WillTheThrill]

This is not good. Not good at all. If he fails completely this year will be a major set back for the Giants.:banghead::lightning:

Yeah, especially since Wellemayer is sucking it big time with the G's right now. If Bumgarner WASN'T hurt... or whatever... he would have made the team as their fifth starter. And, who knows, we might've been looking at the Giants being 9-1 instead of 7-3.

Wellemayer SUCKS. Get rid of him!!!!!! :bugeye:

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[WillTheThrill]

Andrew Baggarly had this to say about Madison Bumgarner a couple of days ago. Sounds somewhat promising.

Sabean: Giants' Madison Bumgarner was 'ill-prepared' this spring

By Andrew Baggarly

abaggarly@mercurynews.com
Posted: 04/19/2010 09:23:59 PM PDT

SAN DIEGO — Conspiracy theories abound as to why left-hander Madison Bumgarner suddenly became so hittable at Triple-A Fresno.

According to Brian Sabean, there is nothing physically the matter with the 20-year-old. But the Giants' general manager provided a frank assessment of where things went off track for the heralded prospect.

"It's this simple: He was preoccupied this winter and it cost him," Sabean said. "He had personal stuff to straighten out, getting married, and he was ill-prepared to come into spring training. I don't know how much he threw to get ready.

"Some of it is our fault because we didn't track him as well as maybe we should. We've got to do a better job eyeballing that."

After an unimpressive spring in which he lost the No. 5 job in the rotation and struggled to hit 90 mph, Bumgarner got hit hard in his first two starts for Fresno, giving up 11 runs and 21 hits in seven innings.

"To compete as a major league pitcher, you can't be in catch-up mode," Sabean said. "He's still in the throes of that. He's still in spring training mode, and Triple-A is not forgiving. The (Pacific Coast League) is a hitter's league, it always has been, and if you make mistakes you won't be forgiven."

Sabean said vice president and pitching guru Dick Tidrow spent time with Bumgarner over the weekend to help tweak his mechanics. The session appeared to pay off.

Bumgarner rebounded with a much better effort Monday, holding Portland to three hits and two runs (one earned) in six innings. According to Fresno broadcaster Doug Greenwald, the scoreboard radar gun had Bumgarner's fastball consistently in the low 90s, topping out at 93 mph.

"Because of how he throws across his body, it's a timing thing, like a hitter with a hitch in his swing," Sabean said. "When he's in sync, he's throwing downhill. He hadn't done that.

"Right now, he's got three things against him: His slow start, the mechanical issues and the pressures of Triple-A. But he's a good athlete and a good talent and he'll figure it out."

Sabean said the organization remains high on Bumgarner because of the way he buzzed through the low minors.

"Oh, you have to be," Sabean said. "In a lot of ways, this will be good for him. It'll toughen him up and teach him some humility, and teach him how you approach the job on a year-round basis."

[Bear]

Lets hope Sabean learned something too and is not just giving lip service when he say some of the blame belongs to the club. No shit Brian. Who is the leader here you or Bumgarner?:eek:

[McCovey]

Some good MadBum news. :beerbang:


A tweak puts Madison Bumgarner back on track

By Mark Emmons
Updated: 05/27/2010 11:29:11 PM PDT

FRESNO — One small change, Madison Bumgarner said, is all it took.
After a disappointing spring in which he lost his chance to be the Giants' fifth starter, Bumgarner allowed 11 earned runs in his first two starts at Triple-A Fresno. Even more alarming was a loss of velocity by the 20-year-old left-hander.

But an adjustment in where he releases the ball has turned everything around. The 6-foot-4 Bumgarner has allowed only six earned runs in his past seven starts. He is 3-1 with a 3.14 ERA and once again is hitting 90 mph-plus on the radar gun.

"It was just a minor mechanical thing that had gotten by all of us," said Bumgarner, the 10th pick of the 2007 draft. "There was a lot of other speculation going around. There were just a lot of rumors that couldn't have been further from the truth."

Bumgarner wouldn't elaborate. But he seemed stung by criticism from Giants general manager Brian Sabean, who said in April that Bumgarner was "preoccupied this winter, and it cost him. He had personal stuff to straighten out, getting married, and he was ill-prepared to come into spring training."

Last season, Bumgarner solidified his rising-star status by going a combined 12-2 with a 1.85 ERA at Single-A San Jose and Double-A Connecticut. That earned him a September call-up with the Giants, where he posted a 1.80 ERA in four appearances.

But now, Fresno manager Steve Decker believes Bumgarner has never thrown better even if his statistics aren't quite as sparkling."He's turned into a total pitcher," Decker said. "He's no longer just a big ol' country boy who rears back and throws real hard. He's a legitimate, four-pitch guy."
Decker said Fresno pitching coach Pat Rice did more than alter Bumgarner's release point to a location more in front of his body. He also has tinkered with Bumgarner's mental approach.

"Pat told him, 'We're going to rename your breaking ball and call it a curveball,' " Decker said. "Then all of the sudden Madison starts creating some real depth to his breaking ball that he never had before. Then Pat asked him to think of his slider as a cutter, and suddenly Madison put a real sharp break to it. When Madison thinks that way, his body makes the mechanical adjustments."

[SF Kid]

Cool. I hoped this guy gets it together and can become a legit 5th starter for us very soon.

[WillTheThrill]

Cool. I hoped this guy gets it together and can become a legit 5th starter for us very soon.

Kid... he's "had it together" for about 4-6 weeks. The Giants just aren't bringing him up. They obviously think Wellemayer is a "professional pitcher". :rolleyes:

(Hey, there's that eye roll again!)

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[SF Kid]

Damn we have a lot of professionals on the team.

Does look like Freddy Sanchez is rounding into form. My bad.

[McCovey]

Kid... he's "had it together" for about 4-6 weeks. The Giants just aren't bringing him up. They obviously think Wellemayer is a "professional pitcher". :rolleyes:

(Hey, there's that eye roll again!)

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From now on when I mention Will I'll jusy post " :rolleyes: " instead! :pound:

[McCovey]

MadBum pitched well again tonight. He pitched 7.2 innings, allowed just 4 hits and zero runs. He's 4-1 W-L with a 2.72 ERA. And that includes his two horrific starts to begin the season. In MadBums first two games he pitched just 7 innings and gave up 11 ER, 21 hits, and 3 HRs. He was 0-1 W-L with an ugly 14.14 ERA. In the subseqnt 8 starts Bumgarner has been brilliant.

8 GB, 49.1 IP, 4-0 W-L, 1.09 ERA, 38 H, 6 ER, 1 HR, 34 K, 14 BB, 1.054 WHIP.

Will called it a while back. MadBum is ready for the Show now.

Here's a CRAZY fact. Would anyone care to guess what MadBum's career minor league ERA is?

Wait for it...



Wait for it.......




Wait for it...........






1.83 ERA!

[SF Kid]

Will called it a while back. MadBum is ready for the Show now.
Let's do it. Do the Giants have anything to lose?

[WillTheThrill]

From now on when I mention Will I'll jusy post " :rolleyes: " instead! :pound:

Hardy, har, har. I bet you use :rolleyes: more than I do. :D

.

[WillTheThrill]

Let's do it. Do the Giants have anything to lose?

Yeah. Wellemayer!!! LOL. :pound:

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[Bear]

Hardy, har, har. I bet you use :rolleyes: more than I do. :D

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This is used sooo much ":rolleyes:" it should be the name of the forum.:rolleyes:

[WillTheThrill]

"sfgiants-rolleyes-forum.com" it is. :rolleyes:

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[Bear]

"sfgiants-rolleyes-forum.com" it is. :rolleyes:

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:pound::rotf::pound::rotf::pound::rotf::pound:

[SF Kid]

Dumbasses. :rolleyes:

[McCovey]

I missed MadBum's June 2nd game. He pitched 6.1 innings, 7 hits, 3 K, 3 BB, 3 ER and got the win. MAdBum is now 5-1 W-L, 2.73 ERA, 43 K, 19 BB for the year.

[Bear]

I missed MadBum's June 2nd game. He pitched 6.1 innings, 7 hits, 3 K, 3 BB, 3 ER and got the win. MAdBum is now 5-1 W-L, 2.73 ERA, 43 K, 19 BB for the year.

He has done all the Giants have asked for and I think he has earned a shot. :)

[SF Kid]

Me too.

[McCovey]

He has done all the Giants have asked for and I think he has earned a shot. :)
That's for sure! MadBum is 32-6 W-L, 1.85 ERA in his minor league career! And he's still only 20 years old which is pretty amazing.

[WillTheThrill]

Did anyone on the board hear about Bumgarner's meltdown during the game against Fresno the other day??? Here are some details from Henry Schulman, with a long quote from a fan who saw the incident:

Madison Bumgarner was ejected from last night's game against Sacramento. I got a great report from a fan in attendance. He said I could post his e-mail to me but asked that his name not be used. Based on what I've heard from other people, it sounds as though Bumgarner did enough to get himself suspended.

The eyewitness report: "We saw Madison Bumgarner pitch last night in Fresno. He was cruising along with a shutout until the sixth inning. Then, Eugenio Velez dropped a pop fly that should've been caught by the center fielder...and Bumgarner came unglued.

"Then he got into a beef with the first base umpire over a close play while covering first. Then got into a beef with the second base umpire over a pickoff play at second (in the seventh inning). The second base umpire tossed him after he lost his cool. He had to be physically restrained from the umpire by his teammates.

"On his way back to the dugout he turned around and threw the baseball into center field. He left with the score tied at 5-5. The Grizzlies scored in the bottom of the 6th so he still got the win."

By the way, Bumgarner obviously was not considered for the Giants' start in Cincinnati on Thursday. If they choose to bypass Todd Wellemeyer, Joe Martinez is the likeliest candidate. He is supposed to pitch that night in Tacoma.

And the repercussions, also written by Henry Schulman. At least it doesn't sound like the Giants are so pissed off at him that it could delay his arrival in the majors:

Apparently the blowback from Madison Bumgarner's ejection and flip-out Monday, which are described in the Giants Splash blog entry before this one, has reached the left-hander. He issued a statement through a team spokesman tonight. The spokesman also said the organization has fined Bumgarner an undisclosed amount.

It reads: "I regret my actions during last night's game in Fresno. I am a highly competitive person, but I let my emotions get the better of me. I want to apologize to the Giants organization and to the fans for Fresno and throughout baseball."

Such a blowup raises maturity questions (though to be fair, plenty of older players have done stuff like this). Before the Giants beat the Reds 3-0 tonight, manager Bruce Bochy said Bumgarner's actions will not hold him back in the organization's mind.

"He's competitive. We know that," Bochy said. "He probably learned that from his pitching coach (Dave Righetti). He did that in a major-league game.

"He's thrown well down there," Bochy said of Bumgarner. "We're excited by his progress, where he's at. We feel we have a guy who's real close. If any moves are made, we'll do it when we feel it's the right time."

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[Bear]

A pitcher with some fire. I can't say that it bothers the Bear any.:boxing:

[McCovey]

So is it MADBUM TIME?!!!! :beerbang:

[WillTheThrill]

So is it MADBUM TIME?!!!! :beerbang:

As soon as he finishes his three-game suspension... maybe. We can only hope! :D

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[Bear]

As soon as he finishes his three-game suspension... maybe. We can only hope! :D

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His what?:confused::No_clue::^^

[WillTheThrill]

His what?:confused::No_clue::^^

Bumgarner was suspended by the PCL for three days for his outburst a few days ago, and will serve the suspension Saturday, Sunday and Monday. However, according to Henry Schulman, PCL suspensions DO NOT apply to the major leagues so he can still be promoted if the Giants want him up here! (Weird.) But Wellemayer's next scheduled day to pitch won't be until Tuesday, so it's a moot point either way.

Andrew Baggarly tweeted about it, saying "LHP Madison Bumgarner was suspended 3 games by PCL for his heated ejection Monday, Giants VP Bobby Evans confirms. He'll serve it Sat-Mon." Here's the link: http://twitter.com/extrabaggs/statuses/15879916525

Also, Henry Schulman talked about it here: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/giants/detail?blogid=22&entry_id=65519

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[Bear]

Thanks Will for the info.:beerbang:

[jimm]

Nothing wrong with a little redass in your pitcher!

[robbnen]

:pound::beerbang::DBattery for Saturday has been announced:

Madison Bumgarner and Buster Posey. YESSS!

[WillTheThrill]

:pound::beerbang::DBattery for Saturday has been announced:

Madison Bumgarner and Buster Posey. YESSS!

Hallelujah!!!!! :D:toast::yes::dance::party:

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[McCovey]

MadBum is back! Woohoo! :beerbang:

[SF Kid]

:pound::beerbang::DBattery for Saturday has been announced:

Madison Bumgarner and Buster Posey. YESSS!A peak into the future?

Good luck to Madison. I really hope he shows he's ready for the BIGS.

[WillTheThrill]

Good luck to Madison. I really hope he shows he's ready for the BIGS.

He is. I'm not going to guarantee it (no one is that stupid, I hope!). But after seeing him pitch, this guy is a stud. His numbers at every level of competition show it. And comments I heard from the Giants' scouting organization (in April in Portland when he pitched against the Beavers) tell me that this guy can PITCH lights out.

I hope he has a great career. :beerbang:

.

[Bear]

He is. I'm not going to guarantee it (no one is that stupid, I hope!). But after seeing him pitch, this guy is a stud. His numbers at every level of competition show it. And comments I heard from the Giants' scouting organization (in April in Portland when he pitched against the Beavers) tell me that this guy can PITCH lights out.

I hope he has a great career. :beerbang:

.

I to hope he has a great career, but he will have to pitch much better than he did last fall if he is to be thought of as a stud.:rolleyes:

[McCovey]

A peak into the future?

Good luck to Madison. I really hope he shows he's ready for the BIGS.
I hope he's a tough hombre on the mound. But isn't it kind of hard to considered a tough hombre with a name like Madison? :p Sheesh, what were his parents thinking. :)

[SF Kid]

What a tool.

Madison gets rocked for 4 runs early. Dayum.

[McCovey]

What a tool.

Madison gets rocked for 4 runs early. Dayum.
MadBum is obviously garbage! Get rid of him, right Kid?! :o

And why did Buchholtz leave the game after two innings?

[Bear]

MadBum is obviously garbage! Get rid of him, right Kid?! :o

And why did Buchholtz leave the game after two innings?

To be honest Madison looked pretty good. He is a keeper and the answer to the need for a #5 starter.

Clay Buchholz left because he hurt his knee running the bases.

[McCovey]

I agree. MadBum just needs some starts to get comfortable in the majors.

[WillTheThrill]

I didn't see or hear the game, unfortunately. Family stuff. But I looked at the box score and Bumgarner's line. It seems like he pitched okay, but just had a couple of mistakes.

Admittely, two home runs is not a good thing. But I think it's fair to say the kid was probably a bit nervous. :) Only his second major league start, and it's against one of the best-hitting teams in the majors and on national t.v.

He'll be okay. :beerbang:

.

[SF Kid]

I didn't see or hear the game, unfortunately. Family stuff. But I looked at the box score and Bumgarner's line. It seems like he pitched okay, but just had a couple of mistakes.

Admittely, two home runs is not a good thing. But I think it's fair to say the kid was probably a bit nervous. :) Only his second major league start, and it's against one of the best-hitting teams in the majors and on national t.v.

He better be okay. :beerbang:

Fixed that for you Will.

[WillTheThrill]

Fixed that for you Will.

Nope, I'm going to stick with "He'll be okay." Don't put words in my mouth! :nono::D

.

[Bear]

Nope, I'm going to stick with "He'll be okay." Don't put words in my mouth! :nono::D

.

I am going to say that if they stick with him in the rotation he will win close to if not more than 10 games this year.:)

[jimm]

Great effort tonite Madison (pretty solid in the other 2 starts too) :beerbang:

[SF Kid]

Nice to see the kid get a win.

[Bear]

He pitched really well. It was a great win for the Giants, and a even bigger win for Madison.:beerbang:

[McCovey]

MadBum looked good tonight. I liked how he allowed two base runners in the third inning and worked himself out of the jam. That shows some coolness and maturity. It's so easy to forget that MadBum is just 20 years old and graduated high school just three years ago! :eek:

[Bear]

MadBum looked good tonight. I liked how he allowed two base runners in the third inning and worked himself out of the jam. That shows some coolness and maturity. It's so easy to forget that MadBum is just 20 years old and graduated high school just three years ago! :eek:

It appears now that he has a very bright future. As far as I am concerned he is now the #1 left-hander on the staff.:beerbang:

[McCovey]

And he threw 115 pitches in tonight's game. He threw 111 pitches in his last start. It seems MadBum doesn't have a pitch count. ;)

[Jackie-Moon]

Let's hope he turns it on in about half an hour!
C'mon Giants!

[McCovey]

MadBum wins again. The kid is good! He has six strikeouts and ZERO walks. Well done young man...

[Bear]

MadBum wins again. The kid is good! He has sic strikeouts and ZERO walks. Well done young man...

What is sic strikeouts?:pound:

[McCovey]

What is sic strikeouts?:pound:
The opposite of well strikeouts! :D

[Bear]

The opposite of well strikeouts! :D
:pound::pound::pound:

[EIM86]

Bum G woot woot! I'm liking the pitching staff right now.

[McCovey]

I didn't think about this. MadBum could be shutdown at around 170 innings.


Bumgarner's workload

With all the talk about the workload of Stephen Strasburg (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=30373) in his first professional season, the question of how the San Francisco Giants (http://espn.go.com/mlb/team/_/name/sf/san-francisco-giants) may handle left-hander Madison Bumgarner (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=29949) is a legit inquiry. The Giants aren't sure yet, (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/07/10/SPB41EBGRL.DTL) but Bumgarner has never thrown as many as 142 innings and he's 37 1/3 innings away from that as of Saturday.

"As we get into it, we'll need to talk about his situation," manager Bruce Bochy said. "All we're thinking about is letting him pitch every fifth day."
Should the southpaw average six innings per starts the rest of the season and make a start every fifth day or so, he would land in the range of 190 to 200 innings, which might be too big a jump.

If the Giants are in the race in September, they could have a dilemma on their hands, but could also plan for such a dilemma by pushing Bumgarner back here and there and pulling him from games a little sooner than otherwise would be necessary.

[Bear]

My God, let the kid pitch. I hate this kid glove approach. They think he has only thrown 142 innings. What about the unofficial innings he throws at home or on recreational league games he plays with friends? If you guys think this does not happen believe me it does.:eek:

[SF Kid]

My God, let the kid pitch. I hate this kid glove approach. One of the things I hate about today's baseball game. Managers and front offices are afraid of their own shadow. What BS.

[McCovey]

The Giants need top find an intelligent middle ground. On a certain level young pitchers do not pitch quite enough these days. But we don't want the Giants to go the opposite extreme and just let MadBum pitch 60%-70% more innings than he has before. That would be idiotic. I think all teams have learned from past mistakes like the Mets who destroyed Dwight Gooden's incredible arm through ridiculous overuse as a young pitcher.

[Jackie-Moon]

You mean use him sparingly until he's older/more developed?
That sounds like the right thing to do.

[McCovey]

Apparently, the Giants do have a plan in place about what to do about Bumgarner's innings. :awesomework.gif


Giants update: San Francisco works on plans to limit innings of rookie Madison Bumgarner

By Andrew Baggarly

Posted: 07/22/2010 09:02:09 PM PDT
Updated: 07/22/2010 10:51:34 PM PDT

Giants plot how to avoid overworking Bumgarner

PHOENIX — The Giants don't plan to shut down left-hander Madison Bumgarner this season, but club officials are considering ways to limit the 20-year-old rookie's innings in the second half.

Among the possible designs: Piggybacking him or perhaps even alternating turns with right-hander Todd Wellemeyer, who is nearing the end of his minor league rehab assignment.

The Giants also could look to push back Bumgarner on occasion. But with just seven more days off built into the schedule, none within a week of each other, they cannot simply skip their No. 5 starter.

Bumgarner, who starts Saturday at Chase Field, has thrown 1161/3 innings between Triple-A Fresno and the major leagues. He threw 1411/3 innings last year and 1412/3 innings in 2008.

"I won't have a problem throwing 200," Bumgarner said. "I've felt strong and healthy at the end of every season. This one is longer, but I've learned what to do between starts. For the most part, I'm feeling great."

The Giants understand the risk of leaning heavily on rookies in a pennant race. During their last playoff season in 2003, former manager Felipe Alou used two youngsters, Jesse Foppert and Jerome Williams, in his rotation.

Williams, 21, threw a career-high 188 innings. For whatever reason, neither ended up fulfilling his lofty potential.

[EIM86]

Apparently, the Giants do have a plan in place about what to do about Bumgarner's innings. :awesomework.gif

I'd rather use Joe Martinez then Todd "Well I suck".

[SF Kid]

Crappy plan if you ask me. But then it's the Giants we're talking about. In that case maybe they should have babied The Freak a little more.

[WillTheThrill]

Crappy plan if you ask me. But then it's the Giants we're talking about. In that case maybe they should have babied The Freak a little more.

No shit. Any plan involving Wellemayer pitching more is a crappy plan. :rolleyes:

.

[McCovey]

An interesting article about Bumgarner at fangraphs. Remmeber when we were all worried about MadBum's velocity? He's throwing harder than ever on all his pitcher. :)


Madison Bumgarner Beats His Projections (http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/madison-bumgarner-beats-his-projections/)

by Eno Sarris - September 6, 2011

Going into this season, ZiPS projected Madison Bumgarner (http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=5524&position=P) to have a 3.93 ERA and a 1.32 WHIP built on the back of a 5.84 K/9 and a 2.78 BB/9. It’s safe to say that he outdid those conservative numbers this year. Was this more about improvement or consolidation of talent? In other words, did Bumgarner say the same in the face of regression, or did he take fundamental steps forward this season?

First, let’s examine the role of luck in his season to date. His BABIP is currently .326, which looks high for a starter with a 8.15 K/9 and 46.1% groundball rate. Indeed, using Matt Swartz’s xBABIP for SIERA calculations, he should have a .293 BABIP. He’s stranding 70.9% of his runners and the league’s been stranding 72.4%. This is not some extended run of luck by the standards set by these two stats.

So we are back to our original question. It’s clear that, in at least one area, Bumgarner has taken a step forward. His swinging strike rate this year is 8.8%. That means he’s above average (8.5%) this year after being below-average (7.6%) last year. This is responsible for his leap in strikeout rate from below-average to above-average (6.97 K/9 to 8.15 K/9).

He’s still throwing the same pitches, but the mix is slightly different. The slider has become a center piece, going from 20.9% to 31.9% usage. The changeup has suffered, dropping from 10.3% to 3.2%. It’s a bit surprising, given the fact that his changeup was a better pitch by linear weights pitch types last year (5.2 runs to 0.2 runs above average). Now he uses the pitch almost exclusively against right-handed batters (he’s thrown four against lefties all year), taking advantage of the fact that it’s a platoon-neutral pitch by most research. Maybe his coaches noticed that he gets more whiffs and ground balls from his slider (true over 1500+ pitches in two seasons), or maybe he just personally decided to use his better pitches more.

Other than a consolidation in his pitching mix, there’s been a slight step forward in velocity. Most Pitch F/x tracking systems have his fastball a half MPH faster this year, and his slider almost three MPH faster. Other than his slider getting a little straighter (one-plus inch of horizontal movement less this year), the pitches are moving the same. Obviously, this amount of velocity is not the explanation for his newfound success, but it works hand in hand with the change in pitching mix to help put his new swinging strikes in context.

With a groundball rate that’s a mere percentage point above last year’s number, and an almost identical walk rate, it’s tempting to say that the swinging strikes explain all of his improvement. But we do have to give Bumgarner some credit for fighting off regression. He’s always had great control in the minor leagues (1.9 MiLB BB/9), so maybe that wasn’t so surprising. But he only had above-average ground-ball rates in the minors (45.2% at Triple-A in 2010), and most pitchers would expect to show a worse ground-ball rate in the major leagues. Avoiding regression in that category was a particularly heartening fact for his future.

Madison Bumgarner is ninth in the league in SIERA among qualified starters (eighth in xFIP and fourth in FIP). That’s an elite place to be, and it’s remarkable that he’s done it without being elite in any of the main three factors. He’s 21st in K%, 19th in BB% and 46th in GB%. Put it all together, though, and he’s a well-rounded, and yes, elite pitcher.

And he got there with a little mix of getting better and staying the same.